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Official Toronto Raptors Thread

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13 minutes ago, Morrison7 said:

“I hate to be defensive here, but I can also say when I came here, I gave them (DeRozan, Casey, etc.) a chance. … At some point, we have to do something different."

Masai’s not wrong, love it.

So explain his hiring philosophy in replacing Casey?

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And how many games did Lenorad play last season???

I'd still rather have Derozan on the court putting up 20 points per game than Leonard sitting at home cause he bumped his head or stubbed his toe.

i dont doubt Leonard is a MUCH  better player than Derozan.  i do doubt Derozan isn't as good as an empty seat at a press conference.   the guy has 0 interest in playing for the raps.  he sat out last year because he didn't want to play for the Spurs.  i have 0 faith he does anything for the Raps  and don't even know if he plays a game.

 

if Masi convinces him to play and stay then its a huge win.  i just dont see it happening 

Edited by crazyray79

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1 hour ago, §andman said:

 

 

Holy shit you two are so out to lunch you'd be ordering sushi in a pizza restaurant. 

If we're going to try to somehow compare the NBA and NHL then Derozan is Kessel. All offense, except at an incredibly inefficient rate and no playoff performance and zero defense. 

Let's look at some advanced stats:

Deozan is nowhere near the top 20 for PER (player efficiency rating). True shooting percentage? Nope. Offensive rating (meaning the team scores more points with him on the floor) Nope, Kyle Lowry is though. Defensive rating? LOL but Green is. Win/Shares? Yes, 16th. Win/Shares per 48 minutes? Nope. Usage? Yes, he is. That means the team relies on him more often than not and yet he isn't in the top 20 for offensive categories. So if a team USES Derozan as MUCH as they do and yet he FAILS to produce EFFICIENTLY the team is not EFFECTIVE while on the court. This has been Demar's problem throughout his career. He is not efficient and he is not a difference maker. 

Leonard had 2 seasons where he put up win/shares of over 13. Demar's best? 9.9. 

Do you want to know how much worse his stats get in the playoffs? In 5 seasons, his TOTAL win/shares are 1.6. Kawhi? 12.7! 
Derozans PER (efficiency) is lower than 20 every single playoffs. His best was 18.2. Kawhi? His last 3 playoffs were higher than Derozan's BEST. 
True shooting percentage? Derozan is under .500. Kawhi is over .600. 

Shit, Danny Green, the THROW IN, for this trade has better playoff numbers (in some cases) than Demar. 

Demar is not a top 15 player in the league. Top 20, maybe. He is NOT Matthews. He probably isn't even Kessel in our imaginary comparison. Demar is a nice dude, super loyal but we were going nowhere with him as the team leader, just like the Leafs were going nowhere with Phaneuf and Kessel as their leaders.  The reason Lebron Daddy's the Raps is because the piss poor defense of Demar does not help to isolate him and others on the court. Demar was a negative defensive presence this past playoffs. 

Demar was NEVER going to get you a good return. His contract is massive and he would have ruined a rebuild and lengthened a Raps blow up. He would have helped the team finish mediocore rather than bottom 5. He's good for that much. 

No upside? No upside you say? The upside is you just traded for a top 5, top 3 player in the entire league. You just upgraded your depth by adding Green. You just gave yourself a BETTER chance this year to make the NBA finals. 

 

Edit: To further pile on (and I dislike doing this because I like the dude but you guys are so horribly wrong, I feel the need).

Demar's offensive rating/defensive rating are NEGATIVE every playoff series. That means the team doesn't score enough points and gives up MORE points when he is on the court. Leonard's is the opposite. And when you compare Derozan to Lowry, Derozan's is further south (meaning worse) compared to Lowry, so yes, you can conclude that Derozan does not help his team (mainly due to his piss poor defence). 

 

However the real elephant in the room, Toronto as a team last season was 4.5 pts better offensively when he sits on the bench... lol.

21 minutes ago, uteck said:

So explain his hiring philosophy in replacing Casey?

https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/nick-nurse-finally-handed-keys-raptors-patient-wait/

 

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1 hour ago, uteck said:

Assuming half of what you said is semi correct. 

 

Why trade him him for one year of a guy who doesn’t even want to come to Toronto. 

 

I want to focus the trade more on the return than Derozan. Don’t bother including Derozan in the reply. 

It's a risk. A big gamble. 

If it doesn't work out, you start a rebuild a year sooner, which the team was going to do next season anyway when they inevitably failed in the playoffs for the umpteenth time. 

If it works out, you have a significantly better opportunity to make the NBA finals. 

31 minutes ago, crazyray79 said:

And how many games did Lenorad play last season???

I'd still rather have Derozan on the court putting up 20 points per game than Leonard sitting at home cause he bumped his head or stubbed his toe.

i dont doubt Leonard is a MUCH  better player than Derozan.  i do doubt Derozan isn't as good as an empty seat at a press conference.   the guy has 0 interest in playing for the raps.  he sat out last year because he didn't want to play for the Spurs.  i have 0 faith he does anything for the Raps  and don't even know if he plays a game.

 

if Masi convinces him to play and stay then its a huge win.  i just dont see it happening 

He really has no option to not play. He cannot become a FA if he decides to sit out an entire year. 

His value is low and if he wants to make more money next year, he'll probably play. 

Drake was brought in for this exact reason. 

If he doesn't play, we rebuild. We got out of under Derozans atrocious contract, and sell off the remainder of the expiring contracts and rebuild for 3 years from now.

Zero drawback. 

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Pretty much every basketball expert thinks this is a great trade for Toronto (and not a bad one for the Spurs) and many think it makes the Raptors Eastern Conference favorites when they weren't two days ago.

The more time people have to process it, the more they should like it. If they lose and Kawhi walks, oh well, they weren't winning with DeRozan. 

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Before the season even starts you'll probably hear every possible angle/story imaginable about Raptors/Kawhi.

 

Another one of the crazy ones I heard was how stories might be thrown out there by US media to bash Toronto so that there won't be superstar guys wanting to go there. They'll go to the American teams, meaning the ones who''ll be on those primetime ESPN matchups. Look at the media guys most bashing Raptors, it usually stems from ESPN. Sure, it's ESPN and they barely have sources for anything, but there are MANY people who do believe them, and they could make up the craziest and most untrue things about Toronto and players might actually believe them.

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I don't follow the NBA like I used too.   But here's my take on this trade :

The Raptors were not going anywhere with the current team....something had to be done.    I did not agree with firing the coach...especially since he was up for Coach of the Year (did he win??)   The problem with this trade is Kawhi is gone after this season is over....at least that's how it looks.   If the Raptors manage to sign him to a contract for a few years, then it is a great move, but until that time Kawhi is basically a rental for a team that isn't guaranteed a spot in the playoffs anyway....remember Derozan & Casey were big parts of the team getting to the playoffs, and if Kawhi doesn't stay healthy, the team doesn't make the playoffs this season.

 

It is a risky move....especially given Kawhi is from California and has openly said he wants to go to the Lakers when he was with his previous team.    Somehow I don't see TO management convincing him to stay in TO and play with Lowry, given that he could go to LA and play with LeBron.....I just don't think this was a good move for the Raptors, but if they sign him, then the move is a good one....we will have to wait and see I guess.

 

 

 

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Even without DeRozan or Kawhi, Raptors roster probably can make the playoffs in the east.

 

Lets say all other playoff teams are the same(Minus Cleveland). That'd leave 2 spots open for Raptors, Pistons, Hornets, Cavs. Hornets and Pistons both finished with under 40 wins last year. Raptors without DeRozan/Kawhi are better than Cavs without LeBron. And Hornets didn't do anything to drastically improve.

 

In the East, you basically just have to be a .500 team to make the playoffs.

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41 minutes ago, majingir said:

Even without DeRozan or Kawhi, Raptors roster probably can make the playoffs in the east.

 

Lets say all other playoff teams are the same(Minus Cleveland). That'd leave 2 spots open for Raptors, Pistons, Hornets, Cavs. Hornets and Pistons both finished with under 40 wins last year. Raptors without DeRozan/Kawhi are better than Cavs without LeBron. And Hornets didn't do anything to drastically improve.

 

In the East, you basically just have to be a .500 team to make the playoffs.

So the goal is to be a .500 team and make the playoffs. 

 

Seems doableish. 

 

Hope Babcock doesn’t lose to Boston in the second round this year and get fired and shanahan trades Matthews for one year of an all star ufa coming off a year long injury 

Edited by uteck

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56 minutes ago, AJ_2000 said:

I don't follow the NBA like I used too.   But here's my take on this trade :

The Raptors were not going anywhere with the current team....something had to be done.    I did not agree with firing the coach...especially since he was up for Coach of the Year (did he win??)   The problem with this trade is Kawhi is gone after this season is over....at least that's how it looks.   If the Raptors manage to sign him to a contract for a few years, then it is a great move, but until that time Kawhi is basically a rental for a team that isn't guaranteed a spot in the playoffs anyway....remember Derozan & Casey were big parts of the team getting to the playoffs, and if Kawhi doesn't stay healthy, the team doesn't make the playoffs this season.

 

It is a risky move....especially given Kawhi is from California and has openly said he wants to go to the Lakers when he was with his previous team.    Somehow I don't see TO management convincing him to stay in TO and play with Lowry, given that he could go to LA and play with LeBron.....I just don't think this was a good move for the Raptors, but if they sign him, then the move is a good one....we will have to wait and see I guess.

 

 

 

Casey did, but again - he took this team as far as he could. Being forced by upper management to get rid of the iso-heavy offensive system in order to catch up to the current on-court trends doesn't sound good, but that's just my opinion.

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49 minutes ago, uteck said:

So the goal is to be a .500 team and make the playoffs. 

 

Seems doableish. 

 

Hope Babcock doesn’t lose to Boston in the second round this year and get fired and shanahan trades Matthews for one year of an all star ufa coming off a year long injury 

I said they can be at least a .500 team WITHOUT DeMar/Kawhi. If they get the healthy Kawhi, they're a 50+ win team again, possibly even 60 win. And then the playoffs being the biggest difference. You have a former finals MVP replacing one of the worst performers in playoff history. And stop comparing this to the Leafs/Matthews. This is literally nothing like that.

 

But we're having this exact same discussion over and over again, no point trying to argue anymore.

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Holy fuck, can some of you people who never watch the Raptors or the NBA kindly take a hike out of this thread. Your opinions on this trade are just flat out wrong. 

We've gone over this already. It totally makes sense. It's a brilliant move. There's nothing wrong with it. 

Uteck, you run away like a dog with its tail tucked when you're wrong and then you return to make the same moronic statements and go as far as making an idiotic comparison. 

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https://www.thestar.com/sports/raptors/2018/07/27/kawhi-leonard-makes-a-fine-first-impression-on-raptors-coach-nick-nurse.html

Quote

 

“I sat down and said, ‘Do you have any questions?’ And he started firing them,” Nurse said. “And it just led us to a really easygoing (conversation). Not what I was expecting. Very smart. Very intelligent. Very engaging. Really enjoyed it … (Management) had to drag us out of there in the end because they had to go do something else. But it was great.”

Surely, as the basketball talk with Leonard went on for some 45 minutes — and Leonard, in Nurse’s words, “lit up like a Christmas tree,” at one point rising to join Nurse diagramming schemes on the whiteboard — Nurse must have been breathing a sigh of relief. The incommunicative enigma who somehow had a falling out with the gold-standard franchise in San Antonio wasn’t some petulant nightmare. Instead, he sounded very much like a typical NBA player concerned about how he’ll fit with his new team, not to mention an elite NBA player deeply hooked on the game’s intricacies.

“We could have gone forever. (Raptors management) kept knocking on the door and I was like, ‘A couple more minutes.’ Because we were really into it,” Nurse said. “It was fun to listen to his take. He asked me, ‘How are you going to use me? Where are you going to get me the ball? What do you see?’ And I told him, ‘Listen. To me, you can do pretty much everything. You can post. You can drive. You can handle it up the floor. You can play screen and roll. You can come off pindowns.’ I said, ‘Did I miss anything?’ He’s like, ‘No, that’s about it.’ I said, ‘You’ll probably be doing all that stuff.’ ”

 

 

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In "it must be September" news, Kawhi bought a house in the GTA. People speculating because he bought instead of rented that it might hint at his future.

And some people claiming it might've been some several million dollar house around York, the same neighborhood people like Drake and other rich guys own mansions.

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