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Trevor5555

Marlies Blueline 2017-18

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Who do you think will make up the Marlies blueline next year?

I think the obvious choices are Dermott, Nielsen, Valiyev, Holl, Rosen and Borgman. With 1 maybe making the Leafs. Then Marchenko could be waived if he doesnt fit with the Leafs cap or skill wise and he would add a much needed RHD to the Marlies.

Beyond those 6 I am curious whether we sign / re-sign any vetran depth d-men for the Marlies like Campbell or Oleksy. Im betting we don't. We should look for young UFA to fill out the blueline or another option is promoting our own prospects. Liljegren and Lindgren are RHD who could be good fits with the Marlies next year.

The SHL is a good development option for both guys but with the Marlies having such a young core and only having 1 RHD currently if Holl is re-signed, its a unique oppurtunity where the Marlies may be the best place to develop these guys. There is already a pretty strong core in place so Liljegren and Lindgren could ease their way into the lineup and start developing under the close observation of Toronto's coaching and development staff. Adding Liljegren and Lindgren would round out a very promising blueline. Great mobility, good offensive skill, decent physicality and improving defensive ability. Quite raw but very young with a lot of potential. Maybe 1 vetran could be a help.

Dermott    -    Rosen

Nielsen     -   Holl

Borgman   -   Liljegren

Valiyev      -    Lindgren              

I expect 1 of these guys to start with the Leafs so we would have 7 guys with pretty good depth and overall ability left on the Marlies. Lindgren is probably the extra guy but it might allow him to work harder in the gym to add the strength he needs to add. Borgman - Liljegren could be a future pair for Sweden at World Championships if they keep developing ....lol....now Im dreaming.

EDIT - Raddysh signed elsewhere and I forgot lol

Edited by Trevor5555

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6 minutes ago, Acie said:

One of Rosen/Borgman should round out the #6 Leafs spot. I'd be surprised if both were signed as AHL depth.

I agree. Rosen is likely the most developed but Dermott could have a shot as well. Of course if we bring Hunwick back as Babcock suggested and add that d-man we want there might not be room for any of Rosen / Dermott / Borgman. We have to wait and see.

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AFAIK Lindgren still hasn't signed his ELC so he's most likely going to be in Sweden again. Liljegren is also going to be in Sweden again. 

I think Rosen most likely makes the Leafs as the 6/7 guy. Borgman will definitely be with the Marlies at least to start but I think he and Dermott will be first up if injuries hit the Leafs. 

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I think Dermott could make the Leafs but I have a feeling he won't because Babcock and company wanot their prospects to be more than ready to make the jump.  He'd have to really impress to make the team this year.

 

Marlies defense should be fun to watch this year to get an eye on the future 

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Im thinking it might be best to give Liljegren a shot with the Marlies. We can ensure he gets lots of playing time and is working on improving the right parts of his game. Lindgren might be worth a look as well. I think Toronto has a better development staff than Rogle or most SHL / Allsvenskan teams. Plus better facilities.

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Liljegren is contracted in Sweden in the upcoming year, right now the plan is he plays there and gets lot's of playing time. so unless he knocks their socks off at rookie camp and repeats the trick at pro camp, he'll be playing in Sweden for one more year.

It looks like Justin Holl will get another shot, for sure as he's been qualified and erstwhile next great Leaf Stu Percy has been cut loose by the Penguinos, it would be a perfect situation for Percy to come home and try to revive his NHL aspirations.

Edited by koho

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On June-27-17 at 10:51 AM, koho said:

Liljegren is contracted in Sweden in the upcoming year, right now the plan is he plays there and gets lot's of playing time. so unless he knocks their socks off at rookie camp and repeats the trick at pro camp, he'll be playing in Sweden for one more year.

It looks like Justin Holl will get another shot, for sure as he's been qualified and erstwhile next great Leaf Stu Percy has been cut loose by the Penguinos, it would be a perfect situation for Percy to come home and try to revive his NHL aspirations.

Well the plan is to bring Liljegren to development camp and get a sense of what the best direction is. I think it was Hunter who said that Liljegren played on too many teams in Sweden last year, those being Rogle's senior team, Rogle's U20 team and a loan stint at Timra I believe. He said its hard for a kid to get settled when they move arround so much. That being said the CHL or AHL would allow Liljegren to spend the whole season in one place without worrying about getting demoted or loaned out. We could control his ice time and guide his development in the AHL on a daily basis which is better than hoping he gets / earns good oppurtunities in Rogle. Not to mention Rogle might have less interest in a kid thats bound for North America so soon.  The CHL option allows him to get big minutes and PP time and play important situations and be a go to guy against his peers.

For my money I like the AHL as option #1 with the CHL as a backup plan if he cant crack the Marlies roster. He gets to play more games than the SHL, on NHL sized ice, with more ice time and if he is with the Marlies he has access to better development staff and facilities. For me the SHL is the worst case scenario for his development. BTW his SHL contract doesnt matter, theres either an out clause or he can buy it out. Thats no real issue. The only issue is if we want him in the CHL and he wants to stay in Sweden for $$$$ or competition. But I think he is a fit for the AHL anyway.

Josh Holl is our only RHD so Liljegren fits with him quite well. Say Rosen makes the Leafs.........

Dermott   -   Holl

Valiyev     -  Nielsen  

Borgman  -   Liljegren

I think we should get him to North America ASAP.....groom him in the AHL for 3-4 years. Then he will be a real product of our development team. Give Lindgren a look too.

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On 6/27/2017 at 9:51 AM, koho said:

Liljegren is contracted in Sweden in the upcoming year, right now the plan is he plays there and gets lot's of playing time. so unless he knocks their socks off at rookie camp and repeats the trick at pro camp, he'll be playing in Sweden for one more year.

Yup.  That's right.  We'll see him in a few years.

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1 hour ago, Trevor5555 said:

Well the plan is to bring Liljegren to development camp and get a sense of what the best direction is. I think it was Hunter who said that Liljegren played on too many teams in Sweden last year, those being Rogle's senior team, Rogle's U20 team and a loan stint at Timra I believe. He said its hard for a kid to get settled when they move arround so much. That being said the CHL or AHL would allow Liljegren to spend the whole season in one place without worrying about getting demoted or loaned out. We could control his ice time and guide his development in the AHL on a daily basis which is better than hoping he gets / earns good oppurtunities in Rogle. Not to mention Rogle might have less interest in a kid thats bound for North America so soon.  The CHL option allows him to get big minutes and PP time and play important situations and be a go to guy against his peers.

For my money I like the AHL as option #1 with the CHL as a backup plan if he cant crack the Marlies roster. He gets to play more games than the SHL, on NHL sized ice, with more ice time and if he is with the Marlies he has access to better development staff and facilities. For me the SHL is the worst case scenario for his development. BTW his SHL contract doesnt matter, theres either an out clause or he can buy it out. Thats no real issue. The only issue is if we want him in the CHL and he wants to stay in Sweden for $$$$ or competition. But I think he is a fit for the AHL anyway.

Josh Holl is our only RHD so Liljegren fits with him quite well. Say Rosen makes the Leafs.........

Dermott   -   Holl

Valiyev     -  Nielsen  

Borgman  -   Liljegren

I think we should get him to North America ASAP.....groom him in the AHL for 3-4 years. Then he will be a real product of our development team. Give Lindgren a look too.

are you fucking well? jeebuzz frigen cripes

1 hour ago, Holymakinaw said:

Yup.  That's right.  We'll see him in a few years.

exactly

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22 hours ago, koho said:

are you fucking well? jeebuzz frigen cripes

exactly

 

On June-28-17 at 8:57 PM, Holymakinaw said:

Yup.  That's right.  We'll see him in a few years.

So you guys dont see the benefits of Liljegren playing in the AHL?

The AHL offers a similar level of competition as the SHL, comparable pay, higher quality development staff and facilities, the benefit of exposure to Torontos top brass, coaches and scouts as well as the benefit of NHL size ice and an 80 game schedule to better prepare him for NHL duty. I think the Marlies are a much more competitive team than Rogle who were struggling last year giving Liljegren the chance to play on a Calder Cup contending team right away.

The only drawback is Liljegren is 18-19 and may want to play another year close to friends and family. In that case the SHL is a fine backup plan. But if he is demoted to the U20 team or isnt getting much oppurtunity were better off developing him in the AHL. The direct influence we can have on development if hes in the AHL in Toronto is a big positive I think as we are producing some very good hockey players and the AHL staff are a big part of that.

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I've never been fond of the idea that TO won't take ownership of a player's development. Sending him back to Sweden as a development strategy seems nonsensical to me. If Lili is playing with men capable then if possible he should play for the Marlies or Leafs. The only fly in the ointment might be the contract he signed for the SHL. 

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They are taking ownership, so try to look at it with this factor in mind, he is still a kid, he hasn't matured physically, his skills and wheels though are all world

He goes back to Sweden, plays in a more skilled oriented game on bigger ice, bigger ice also equals less hitting, Dmen in Sweden don't tend to get crushed into the end boards with the way icing is called over there, with so much ice to work with, puck retrievals on non icings are more wide open, more dependent on skating then out muscling the opponent, not so much on smaller NA rinks

Let's just say they put him on the Marlie blue line for "development", suppose an opponent just some guy who's running out his string in the A and trying to get noticed for a shot on his NHL team, he really wants to show the scout that he's a keener, big, mean, strong and tough enough to play with the big boy's, comes in like a 225 lb meat eating missile and say's fuck it, I'll just crush this wonder-boy when he makes his turn,  and Liljgren goes out with a separated shoulder, blown up knee, broken leg/ankle or whatever or completely loses his will to win those races or engage physically for a long time(remember what happened to Gardiner, he played shy for more then a couple of months)...that scenario is a lot more likely in the AHL/NHL then it is in Swedish Elite

you want him to be a man when he's playing the north american pro game

 

Edited by koho

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It's slightly overrated how much Players from overseas have to learn from the AHL/NA Juniors. 

It probably takes half a year for a guy like Liljegren to get up to the speed of the game. That's about the size of it. 

He's going to be playing decent minutes against vets. He'll do fine.

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23 hours ago, ShanaplanMan said:

I think it was the full 3-4 years in the AHL that did it.

No way Lil' should need to linger that long in the minors.

He might be ready sooner but i'm assuming we want to "over-develop" our prospects so we are sure they can handle NHL duty when they finally make the jump. Babcock, Lou and Shanahan all preach patience. Look at Dermott and Nielsen, both are 21 and will likely need another year or two before managment is comfortable with them taking regular NHL shifts. I think Liljegren will be afforded a similar ammount of development time before he gets his oppurtunity. Most prospects need 2-3 AHL seasons to be ready for the NHL. Brown, Hyman, Kapanen, Carrick all spent significant time in the AHL before earning a NHL job.

Regarding Liljegren my point is that playing in the AHL has many benefits vs SHL. The ice size is a minor factor but the play style in the AHL which puts more emphasis on physical puck battles, quicker pace because less space means less time to make decisions and greater intensity in general are the tougher adjustments. Plus the 80 game season vs 60 game season means its a physically more demanding league. All this paired with the fact that the Marlies are a top AHL team and Rogle is a weak SHL team has me thinking the Marlies are a better place for Liljegren to develop.

I think we recognized this and thats why we brought Nylander over to the AHL instead of keeping him in the SHL. That and we needed Nylanders skill on the Marlies. Liljegren is in a similar situation. We need a good RHD on the Marlies and Liljegren could be a good fit for the Marlies. Plus he will be better prepared for NHL duty in the AHL with our world class development staff and facilities. We will know during camp whether he is ready to fit into the Marlies roster and go from there.

As of right now only Holl shoots right on the Marlies blueline and we have 6 d-men in total. 1 may be in the NHL as well if we dont add a d-man. Another year in the SHL wont hurt by any means but he may be a good fit right now for the Marlies.

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I rather like how how Borgman is being over ripened, where, in the NHL I think. This guy wasn't even drafted and TO's supposed shiny pennies Nielsen and Dermott are being over ripened in the A.

Each player is different and needs to be acknowledged as such, ripening is needed for some while others are better served by being exposed to the NHL as soon as possible.

I figure Nylander and Marner are suffering from sophomore blues now because TO decided to over ripen them.

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