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Catalonia

The Problem of Catalonia  

7 members have voted

  1. 1. Will the Referendum Law be struck down?

    • Yes.
      6
    • No.
      1
  2. 2. Should Catalonia be allowed to vote anyway?

    • Yes.
      5
    • No.
      2


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    The Spanish Constitutional Court on Thursday night suspended a law passed just 24 hours earlier by the Catalan parliament that had paved the the way for a referendum on the region splitting with Spain.

The courts ruled that the referendum law will be suspended while judges consider arguments that the vote breaches the country’s constitution. The courts have previously ruled that a referendum was illegal.

The courts are likely to rule that the law is unconstitutional, leaving the Catalan government — and anyone who support the referendum — in open defiance of the judiciary.

Mariano Rajoy, the Spanish prime minister, said earlier on Thursday he had appealed to the court to declare the referendum illegal.

In a televised address, Mr Rajoy also urged every member of the regional government, all the mayors in Catalonia and other officials to respect the decision of the courts.

Separately, Spain’s public prosecutor on Thursday announced it was launching criminal actions against the entire Catalan cabinet and regional lawmakers involved in processing the referendum bill.

The prosecutor also urged the police to watch out for referendum-related activities, turning up the heat on anyone looking to support the referendum.

 


https://www.ft.com/content/a5d3143e-7230-356b-a347-bb8dec47ae75

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1 hour ago, AJ_2000 said:

I want to see Messi in the Premier League....but not sure if I want to see him end up there in this fashion.

 

I don't have an issue with Catalonian independence....just rather not see anyone get hurt in the process.

The only way you'll see Messi in the Prem is if Man Shitty or Manure buy him.

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i don't know how i feel about this so i can't answer the second poll question.  personally, i think its stupid to want independence.  we're not talking about a country that was attacked and occupied by a foreign entity.   and if you're willing to accept this, then you have to be willing to accept if every province of Canada decided to secede. 
this is a nationalist movement, and i'm against nationalism.  its also a democratically voted on thing which i'm normally in favor of but so many people didn't even vote that its kinda iffy.  as someone who lived in Barca for a while, i know that its also an elitism and prejudice thing.  people in Barca look down on the rest of Spain,  they consider them 'too dark-skinned',  and too poor. 
as someone who supports the EU and think its a necessary evolution,  i feel this division is not progress. 
whatever happens,  i doesn't effect my life at all... but we could be talking about another Spanish civil war here and then we'd have to ask ourselves, was it worth it?  it doesn't matter what side you support, a lot of people are going to die.

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Why does it necessarily have to be a Nationalist movement?   

 

We see Nationalism across the border on the daily so there's no reason to be confused by the definition.    And who cares if they want independence?   It harms you in no way and allows to the state as a whole to to attempt to make it on their own as they've wanted for however long. 

Also, I think you're being a tad dramatic with the Civil War assertion. But again, these aren't perfect times so it is what it is and Spain isn't a perfect country.

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2 hours ago, Armster said:

Why does it necessarily have to be a Nationalist movement?   

 

We see Nationalism across the border on the daily so there's no reason to be confused by the definition.    And who cares if they want independence?   It harms you in no way and allows to the state as a whole to to attempt to make it on their own as they've wanted for however long. 

Also, I think you're being a tad dramatic with the Civil War assertion. But again, these aren't perfect times so it is what it is and Spain isn't a perfect country.

Spanish police have already attacked Cata voters.   at what point do they start shooting them?  Civil war may be a reach, but not an impossibility at this point.  this is essentially like how the American civil war started.   i said in my post that it affects me in no way, i also said i haven't taken a side because i don't know how i feel about it. 
there is also the fact that Russia has been pushing this on social media, just like they pushed the division in America.   what ever happened to "united we stand, divided we fall"?
small doesn't survive very well in this world, a united Spain would definitely survive better than a divided one...  just like a whole Europe is better than bickering countries.  
i personally can't see how division is good.  thats what i'm looking for... a reason why this is a good thing.  or why Quebec leaving would be a good thing.  or NF@L.  or Alberta. 

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Nobody knows how it's going to play but when you've been an abused dog for so long eventually you are going to bite back.  Any other state has independence, hell Hong Kong has it in China so it's not like it's unprecedented.  

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7 hours ago, slapshot said:

i don't know how i feel about this so i can't answer the second poll question.  personally, i think its stupid to want independence.  we're not talking about a country that was attacked and occupied by a foreign entity.   and if you're willing to accept this, then you have to be willing to accept if every province of Canada decided to secede. 
this is a nationalist movement, and i'm against nationalism.  its also a democratically voted on thing which i'm normally in favor of but so many people didn't even vote that its kinda iffy.  as someone who lived in Barca for a while, i know that its also an elitism and prejudice thing.  people in Barca look down on the rest of Spain,  they consider them 'too dark-skinned',  and too poor. 
as someone who supports the EU and think its a necessary evolution,  i feel this division is not progress. 
whatever happens,  i doesn't effect my life at all... but we could be talking about another Spanish civil war here and then we'd have to ask ourselves, was it worth it?  it doesn't matter what side you support, a lot of people are going to die.

As someone living in Barna (Barca is the nick name for the football club, not the city) for 7 years now, I can tell you that what you've posted here is a load of clueless nonsense.

Edited by The Rickest Rick

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On 11/2/2017 at 1:28 AM, The Rickest Rick said:

As someone living in Barna (Barca is the nick name for the football club, not the city) for 7 years now, I can tell you that what you've posted here is a load of clueless nonsense.

thank you for your thought provoking input. you've convinced me with all your empirical data and evidence.   meanwhile Cata's leader has just fled the country for fear of his freedom and even life. 

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8 hours ago, slapshot said:

thank you for your thought provoking input. you've convinced me with all your empirical data and evidence.   meanwhile Cata's leader has just fled the country for fear of his freedom and even life. 

Stop calling it Cata, for fucks sake. No one fucking calls it that.

Yes he went to Brussels, because while a charge of rebellion would almost certainly not stick, seeing as Spanish law has a component of inciting violence in a charge of rebellion, which Puigdemont has not done, they have the ability to detain him for uo to four years without trial, effectively removing him from the Catalan political landscape and leaving him unable to run i these snap elections Rajoy and the Franc, err, Partido Popular National government have called.

Shall I continue or would you prefer to go back to your blanket assertions about Catalunya based on that 2 week break you had here some years ago? 

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10 hours ago, The Rickest Rick said:

Stop calling it Cata, for fucks sake. No one fucking calls it that.

Yes he went to Brussels, because while a charge of rebellion would almost certainly not stick, seeing as Spanish law has a component of inciting violence in a charge of rebellion, which Puigdemont has not done, they have the ability to detain him for uo to four years without trial, effectively removing him from the Catalan political landscape and leaving him unable to run i these snap elections Rajoy and the Franc, err, Partido Popular National government have called.

Shall I continue or would you prefer to go back to your blanket assertions about Catalunya based on that 2 week break you had here some years ago? 

i'll call it what i want,  and i'll call you an idiot for arguing against arguments i never made.  you clearly don't understand anything i'm saying because i can't even figure out what you're trying to argue against.  i lived in Barca for a lot longer than 2 weeks lol, and while i lived there the people who lived there called it Barca so i'm not going to give 2 shits about you trying to pull some politically correct card on me or something.  and calling it Cata, thats just me shortening it out of laziness and if that offends you, suck my dick.  clear? 
i mean really, who tells other people what words to use or goes all spelling nazi... get a grip :D

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3 hours ago, slapshot said:

i'll call it what i want,  and i'll call you an idiot for arguing against arguments i never made.  you clearly don't understand anything i'm saying because i can't even figure out what you're trying to argue against.  i lived in Barca for a lot longer than 2 weeks lol, and while i lived there the people who lived there called it Barca so i'm not going to give 2 shits about you trying to pull some politically correct card on me or something.  and calling it Cata, thats just me shortening it out of laziness and if that offends you, suck my dick.  clear? 
i mean really, who tells other people what words to use or goes all spelling nazi... get a grip :D

If the people you were hanging about with called the city Barca, they were guiri's, plain and simple, you fucking muppet. 

No one from Catalunya would call the city Barca, as that's the fucking contraction for the fucking football club, not the city. Honestly, from what you've displayed here, if you did live here for longer than two weeks, you didn't meet many Catalans, plain and simple, and if you did, they were too polite to correct you. 

There's nothing politically correct about you being called out on your ignorant bullshit.

We can tackle your idiotic view of the Catalan/Castellano divide if you like, but again you've displayed overwhelming ignorance there as well, so I suggest you slink off, lick your wounds, and come back less of a fucking shithead. 

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16 hours ago, The Rickest Rick said:

If the people you were hanging about with called the city Barca, they were guiri's, plain and simple, you fucking muppet. 

No one from Catalunya would call the city Barca, as that's the fucking contraction for the fucking football club, not the city. Honestly, from what you've displayed here, if you did live here for longer than two weeks, you didn't meet many Catalans, plain and simple, and if you did, they were too polite to correct you. 

There's nothing politically correct about you being called out on your ignorant bullshit.

We can tackle your idiotic view of the Catalan/Castellano divide if you like, but again you've displayed overwhelming ignorance there as well, so I suggest you slink off, lick your wounds, and come back less of a fucking shithead. 

sorry bud, you are the one who turned this into Ad Hom attacks instead of having a respectful discussion.  if you cant take it you shouldn't have dished it out in the first place. 
you're not going to teach somebody the knowledge you have by calling them idiots from the very first post, you sound like a Trump supporter.  but then, if you are a nationalist whats the difference?

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for the record i was only in Barcelona for 3 months in 2001, sure but that was long enough to get a feel for the atmosphere and what the locals thought at the time.   i know things have changed since then but the core feelings remain the same. 
i was involved in a bombing by the separatists, i was standing in the square in front of Casa de la Ciutat when a van filled with explosives and pink flower was detonated.  nobody was hurt thankfully but we were all knocked down and covered in pink flower.  thats when i started talking to the locals about why they wanted to leave Spain, and that's when i learned there were some bigotry undertones involved.  there is an 'elitism' that is the driving force behind it.  you can tell me i'm wrong but i talked to dozens of locals about it and thats what i got straight from their mouths.
thats what i've got to go on,  i'm sure there are plenty of other reasons but to me i perceive it as not much different than nationalism.   and i know i'm 'supposed' to be on their side because they are left-wing nationalists but thats not how i function.   i try to look at everything from both sides before i make a decision and thats why i don't know how i feel about this. 

as i said, the thing i worry about the most is how many people are going to die over this and if its worth it. 

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actually it would have been early 2002, january i think.  i was exploring the gothic quarter when i came around the corner to where Casa de la Ciutat is located.  there was a loud explosion and everybody fell down.  pink coloured flower was in the air everywhere and we got covered in it.  i could see a white van with all the windows blown out of it and the back doors open with fire and smoke billowing out of it.   from what i understand, they put explosives in the middle of the truck and pack bags of died flower all around it, its meant to signify something and meant to not kill anyone.  it was a heck of a mess, and i remember marveling at how the locals just picked themselves up, brushed themselves off and continued with their day.  as someone from Canada i wasn't used to such demonstrations but the people of Spain were.    i assume you are trying to doubt my story tho i'm not sure why.  i was there, it happened to me.

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