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CognitiveBias

Where is Nylander?

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2 hours ago, uteck said:

One of the real problems is actually this. 

 

If Nylander gets close to the $8 million, but doesn’t get a great offer on his second deal, it will be performance related..... meaning the leafs just blew up their cap, because Nylander contract and performance becomes one of the measuring sticks all the RFA and FA Agents will use to get more $$$$. 

 

Tough spot for Dubas to find himself in.  But doing nothing isn’t an option. Either sign him or trade him by Dec 1.

Who gives a fuck about his 2nd deal?   He's going to get paid for a combination of performance, potential, and giving up some prime years on a long-term contract now like most other young stars before him and likely after him.   Everything else is irrelevant and most assuredly isn't a "real problem".  Dubas' only concern as a GM is trying to figure out how to keep this group together and if he can't because of the cap, maximizing the returns on those he has to ship out.   Period.  

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24 minutes ago, Armster said:

He's not.  He's just an asshole.

 

25 minutes ago, Armster said:

Who gives a fuck about his 2nd deal?   He's going to get paid for a combination of performance, potential, and giving up some prime years on a long-term contract now like most other young stars before him and likely after him.   Everything else is irrelevant and most assuredly isn't a "real problem".  Dubas' only concern as a GM is trying to figure out how to keep this group together and if he can't because of the cap, maximizing the returns on those he has to ship out.   Period.  

Top box. Stfu

 

second box....yeah thanks for telling me just what I said

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10 hours ago, uteck said:

I kinda get like that when people make horseshit assumptions that are hockey related 

 

If you are wondering, yeah I am looking right at you. 

Horseshit assumptions? On an internet discussion board? Ya don't fuckin' say....

I'll stick to my assumption...i don't see a team looking to deal a top 2/3 young D for an unsigned winger.

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With Kap seeming to fit in nicely (small sample) in Willy's spot, it allows Dubas to be patient.

Wouldn't surprise me to see it drag out till close to Dec 1 deadline. It will give them a decent look at the guys on the Marlies also which could help a trade decision.

Edited by Wilma Fingerdo

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1 hour ago, loxcane said:

Do we exclusively need to look at the right side if we’re making a move for a D? Muzzin looks ripe for the picking in LA

Babcock seems to have a thing about guys playing on their strong side, but for the right D, i'm sure he would adjust. That said, not sure i would deal Nylander for Muzzin.

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On 10/10/2018 at 11:24 PM, Armster said:

Who gives a fuck about his 2nd deal?   He's going to get paid for a combination of performance, potential, and giving up some prime years on a long-term contract now like most other young stars before him and likely after him.   Everything else is irrelevant and most assuredly isn't a "real problem".  Dubas' only concern as a GM is trying to figure out how to keep this group together and if he can't because of the cap, maximizing the returns on those he has to ship out.   Period.  

 

On 10/11/2018 at 10:25 PM, uteck said:

The way this season is going, Nylander will end getting traded for picks and or prospects. Those cap dollars are going to Marner and Matthews 

He's getting traded. This team will score tons of goals with or without him. The reality is Willy's numbers were padded the last two years playing with Matthews. He'll lose out on his money this year and anywhere from $10-30 million throughout his career depending on where he gets traded and the sub par cast he ends up with. You can't ask for $8m per year when you haven't consistently proved yourself yet. Go get 45-50 points somewhere else instead of 70-80 here... oh and that chance to win a cup too. That's the whole point, right?

Edited by CognitiveBias

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5 hours ago, CognitiveBias said:

 

He's getting traded. This team will score tons of goals with or without him. The reality is Willy's numbers were padded the last two years playing with Matthews. He'll lose out on his money this year and anywhere from $10-30 million throughout his career depending on where he gets traded and the sub par cast he ends up with. You can't ask for $8m per year when you haven't consistently proved yourself yet. Go get 45-50 points somewhere else instead of 70-80 here... oh and that chance to win a cup too. That's the whole point, right?

Worst kind of fan right there..

”They aren’t real people that have to earn as much money as possible in a very small window to support themselves for the rest of their lives.. it’s all about winning a cup unless he’s selfish”

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If the Leafs manage to oust the Stanley Cup champions in their own building this evening, the chirping of trading Nylander for a top 4 D will only get louder. I have always been in favour of it since Marner (and later Matthews) were drafted. Not because I didn't like Nylander or didn't think he'd grow to be an NHL elite scorer, but because of the need of more team balance between offence and defence. And between Marner, Matthews and Nylander, Willie was always going to be the 'weakest' link of the 3.  Long term contract or no.

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1 hour ago, TieClark said:

Worst kind of fan right there..

”They aren’t real people that have to earn as much money as possible in a very small window to support themselves for the rest of their lives.. it’s all about winning a cup unless he’s selfish”

That’s not what I read....I read what I also feel about Nylander....he really hasn’t proven himself to be worth the $8 million he’s asking for....heck if it wasn’t for the salary cap era chances are he’d only be getting $4 million as only a few teams would have the money to pay more, and he simply hasn’t proven himself to be anything more than a complimentary player who has had the luxury of playing alongside Matthews.

Oh and ‘real people’ have to earn their pay....no sports athletes should be equated to real people....athletes are a commodity in a business, the fans cheer for them as part of the TEAM.

 

Another thread talked about offer sheets...I hope this happens for us....

 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/nhl/why-it-makes-sense-for-avalanche-hurricanes-to-offer-sheet-nylander/ar-BBOiAmN?li=AAggNb9

 

 

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8 hours ago, CognitiveBias said:

It doesn't even matter if this Kapanen experiment works out or not. Matthews will keep killing it. The sad reality for Nylander is his dad and agent are royally screwing him over. He is missing out on a monster season and others in the future that will land him his biggest contract when he's 28 (and he won't find a better team to put up those numbers for the next 5-7 years). He's losing money every day and it's starting to add up. Fans want to trade him for a top 2 D now. Babcock is mocking him with the second power play unit. He's not worth $8 mil. Maybe not even $7 mil. Seriously unproven and not a complete player yet. If he doesn't sign by Dec. 1 and misses the season, his stock starts tanking.

Bottom line here? Nylander has no leverage in this situation. Sign a fucking 3-4 year bridge deal at $6-6.5! For Christ's sake...

I know his dad has a shitty reputation, though I'm not sure how deserved or not it is.  But there's no doubt that his agent has dropped the ball, big time.  

 

When Pasta reported to camp last season at 6.66, the only reason you don't have your guy immediately try to get something in the 6's with some term (like Ehlers) is if you're betting on yourself, and your numbers in the upcoming season.  Which, to be fair, wasn't a bad bet to make. 

 

However, not only did Nylander's numbers not improve in his contract year, his goal number decreased.  It was a gamble his camp happily took.  Now, after failing to make their hand, they want paid anyway.  As poor a job of representation as you could imagine.  

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3 hours ago, AJ_2000 said:

That’s not what I read....I read what I also feel about Nylander....he really hasn’t proven himself to be worth the $8 million he’s asking for....heck if it wasn’t for the salary cap era chances are he’d only be getting $4 million as only a few teams would have the money to pay more, and he simply hasn’t proven himself to be anything more than a complimentary player who has had the luxury of playing alongside Matthews.

Oh and ‘real people’ have to earn their pay....no sports athletes should be equated to real people....athletes are a commodity in a business, the fans cheer for them as part of the TEAM.

 

Another thread talked about offer sheets...I hope this happens for us....

 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/nhl/why-it-makes-sense-for-avalanche-hurricanes-to-offer-sheet-nylander/ar-BBOiAmN?li=AAggNb9

 

 

This is all just jealousy... “real people need to earn their pay”. Fuck off with that... he’s a professional athlete listening to his professional agent with countless experience doing this, trying to earn as much as he can in his limited window to do so. 

Every single one of us would do the same and that does not mean he doesn’t want to win, isn’t a team player, or any other bs idiotic fans are spewing about him. 

It really shouldn’t be hard for people to understand both sides here

Edited by TieClark

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2 minutes ago, TieClark said:

This is all just jealousy... “real people need to earn their pay”. Fuck off with that... he’s a professional athlete listening to his professional agent with countless experience doing this, trying to earn as much as he can in his limited window to do so. 

Every single one of us would do the same and that does not mean he doesn’t want to win, isn’t a team player, or any other bs idiotic fans are spewing about him. 

It really shouldn’t be hard for people to understand both sides here

I wouldn’t take that advice. 

 

Not all advice is good. 

 

This is was a gamble that doesn’t appear to be working out. The best result for Nylander would be to put himself on a line with Matthews, produce crazy numbers and cash in like crazy. 

His gamble may end up putting him on a ho hum line in Carolina.  

 

There is a reason why there are hardly instances of young players refusing to sign a contract in Nylander’s position. It’s just bad advice 

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So, lessons learned; 

When bringing Communism to North America, wrap it in the pageantry of hockey. Y'all are ardent capitalists but then all of a sudden it's all revenue-sharing and 'he should act selflessly for the greater good' when there's some ice and rubber involved.

Also, hockey players are just a 'commodity' in a business, unlike us wage-slaves. Because logic is hard and AJ never missed an opportunity to totally undercut his own position by posting ill-thought out and reactionary crap.

We are all prostitutes.

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3 minutes ago, Commissar Yarrick said:

So, lessons learned; 

When bringing Communism to North America, wrap it in the pageantry of hockey. Y'all are ardent capitalists but then all of a sudden it's all revenue-sharing and 'he should act selflessly for the greater good' when there's some ice and rubber involved.

Also, hockey players are just a 'commodity' in a business, unlike us wage-slaves. Because logic is hard and AJ never missed an opportunity to totally undercut his own position by posting ill-thought out and reactionary crap.

We are all prostitutes.

Yeah.......you don’t get it. Shocking, absolutely fucking shocking. 

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Au contraire, fuckstick.

Of course, I do recognize that what you're actually clamouring for is not for Nylander to subsume his self-interest in favour of the collective's, but rather that Nylander should abandon his self-interest in order to serve your personal interest in ever-so slightly increasing the chances that a bunch of strangers who wear blue shirts lift a piece of metal in eight months, which is of course so incredibly illogical, selfish and narcissistic that I'm surprised Ayn Rand didn't come back to life and write it. That's not as funny though; it's a bit heavy for a saturday morning and you've almost certainly never read Rand, or anything that doesn't have a main character called Clifford.

I do take your point though. Having people/organisations that produce a lot distribute the surplus to people/organisations who produce little bears no resemblance to Communist theory. Nor does arguing that the collective's interest should take precedence over the individual's. 

Для Родины, товарищ. Evince a consistent position, yo.

Nylander has every right to ask for every cent he believes he is worth. It is not his fault that an allegedly efficient allocation of resources means that he has to sit on his arse doing nothing; it is not his fault the system is rotten, nor is it his responsibility to fix it. Don't blame Will Ny the Holdout Guy, blame the fact that your economic system is built on a game of the Emperor's New Clothes balancing precariously on top of a house of cards which is itself teetering on the edge of a pit filled with shit. It's not his fault he's making you look into that pit of shit.

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