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43 minutes ago, TuckerIntensity said:

Yes, but then his team would get relief if they spend to the cap (well over.)

He's not hurt though. Robidas was. Lupul was. Pronger was. Bolland was.

Datsyuk wasn't, but he fucked off to play in Russia and just held off on saying the word retirement. They suspended him, didn't have to pay him, but took the cap hit (the Coyotes.)

Marleau needs to stay with us until July 2 to get his bonus paid by us, then get traded away, then retire in another city before the season starts (in which case I still don't know that 1) we don't get the cap hit anyway and 2) he keeps the bonus.)

Could his plan have been to just not report in year three and then agree to any trade we want? Sure, but why? It seems convoluted. It's more likely that he wanted a three year deal, intends to play three years, wanted to make sure he controlled where he finished his career and front loaded like everyone does.

I believe we’d still be on the hook for a portion of the cap hit... just like Nashville will be if/when Weber retires before his contract is up.

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31 minutes ago, TuckerIntensity said:

Yes, but then his team would get relief if they spend to the cap (well over.)

He's not hurt though. Robidas was. Lupul was. Pronger was. Bolland was.

Datsyuk wasn't, but he fucked off to play in Russia and just held off on saying the word retirement. They suspended him, didn't have to pay him, but took the cap hit (the Coyotes.)

Marleau needs to stay with us until July 2 to get his bonus paid by us, then get traded away, then retire in another city before the season starts (in which case I still don't know that 1) we don't get the cap hit anyway and 2) he keeps the bonus.)

Could his plan have been to just not report in year three and then agree to any trade we want? Sure, but why? It seems convoluted. It's more likely that he wanted a three year deal, intends to play three years, wanted to make sure he controlled where he finished his career and front loaded like everyone does.

Yes.  He gets $3m on July 1, after that, if he's traded, 1) his cap hit goes with him and, 2) yes he keeps his signing bonus, be it trade, retire, injury etc.  

28 minutes ago, TuckerIntensity said:

Also FWIW, Detroit got hosed in the Datsyuk deal and I'd rather not follow suit in that regard.

Did they?

 

ARZ: Datsyuk, '16 1st (16th overall)

DET: '16 1st (20th overall), '16 2nd (53rd overall), Joe Vitale

 

They unloaded Datsyuk's cap hit (7.5m!!) by moving back 4 spots from 16 to 20, and got 53rd pick and a throw in (joe vitale) in the process.  

I pay that price all day.  Maybe even without the cap savings!

 

 

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1 hour ago, loxcane said:

I believe we’d still be on the hook for a portion of the cap hit... just like Nashville will be if/when Weber retires before his contract is up.

Weber is recapture because of length, Marleau is a +35.

1 hour ago, Doc J said:

Yes.  He gets $3m on July 1, after that, if he's traded, 1) his cap hit goes with him and, 2) yes he keeps his signing bonus, be it trade, retire, injury etc.  

Did they?

 

ARZ: Datsyuk, '16 1st (16th overall)

DET: '16 1st (20th overall), '16 2nd (53rd overall), Joe Vitale

 

They unloaded Datsyuk's cap hit (7.5m!!) by moving back 4 spots from 16 to 20, and got 53rd pick and a throw in (joe vitale) in the process.  

I pay that price all day.  Maybe even without the cap savings!

 

 

Yes, they did. That 16 was Jacob Chychrun. 

As to the rest, that's a very convoluted plan and likely not at all what he was thinking at the time. Simplest solution, Marleau wanted a three year deal and didn't want to be traded without approving it. Could he retire? Sure, he could. But that wasn't the reason for three years, he expected to still be playing and we expected the hit wouldn't bother us.

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1 hour ago, TuckerIntensity said:

Weber is recapture because of length, Marleau is a +35.

Yes, they did. That 16 was Jacob Chychrun. 

As to the rest, that's a very convoluted plan and likely not at all what he was thinking at the time. Simplest solution, Marleau wanted a three year deal and didn't want to be traded without approving it. Could he retire? Sure, he could. But that wasn't the reason for three years, he expected to still be playing and we expected the hit wouldn't bother us.

And the 20th was Cholowski. plus a 2nd rounder.  Not like DET didn't know Chyc was still on the board.  

Not sure how you can call that "getting hosed", especially at this stage, but what evs. 

Will be interesting to see how this plays out.  

 

 

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22 minutes ago, tbnl said:

Give Marner all the money he wants, a long term deal till he's 40, the captaincy and a puppy every season he plays. Man is fucking magic.

Also, fuck Nylander. Trade him to the first team that offers a 1st, 2nd and 7th.

Yes to your first note.

No to your second note.

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4 hours ago, Doc J said:

And the 20th was Cholowski. plus a 2nd rounder.  Not like DET didn't know Chyc was still on the board.  

Not sure how you can call that "getting hosed", especially at this stage, but what evs. 

Will be interesting to see how this plays out.  

 

 

Chychrun is far better than Cholowski. That's the point. The fact Holland knew he was on the board only makes it worse, not better.

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8 minutes ago, TuckerIntensity said:

Chychrun is far better than Cholowski. That's the point. The fact Holland knew he was on the board only makes it worse, not better.

Chychrun is yet to return from knee surgery (acl), his second major injury (shoulder) before age 20.  

 

Will be happy to revisit who got hosed here.  

 

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8 hours ago, TuckerIntensity said:

Weber is recapture because of length, Marleau is a +35.

Yes, they did. That 16 was Jacob Chychrun. 

As to the rest, that's a very convoluted plan and likely not at all what he was thinking at the time. Simplest solution, Marleau wanted a three year deal and didn't want to be traded without approving it. Could he retire? Sure, he could. But that wasn't the reason for three years, he expected to still be playing and we expected the hit wouldn't bother us.

Zaitsev's cap hit bothers us more than Marleau's does. At least, at the end of the day,  Marleau is tradeable and he's still productive. Nobody's taking Zaitsev's cap hit and those dollars, and he's under contract until the Sun runs out of hydrogen and expands into a red giant.

Edited by Caligulove

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8 hours ago, Caligulove said:

Zaitsev's cap hit bothers us more than Marleau's does. At least, at the end of the day,  Marleau is tradeable and he's still productive. Nobody's taking Zaitsev's cap hit and those dollars, and he's under contract until the Sun runs out of hydrogen and expands into a red giant.

It's not the best contract, for sure.  But Zaitsev has played well this season, and his deal is for 4 more years.  Not exactly the end of the world.

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10 hours ago, Doc J said:

Chychrun is yet to return from knee surgery (acl), his second major injury (shoulder) before age 20.  

 

Will be happy to revisit who got hosed here.  

 

You know what else he has before 20? Two years of NHL experience. But I don't really care either way. We won't really know for a half decade. The convoluted retirement plans that are being tossed around is what needed to be addressed as malarky. 

8 hours ago, Caligulove said:

Zaitsev's cap hit bothers us more than Marleau's does. At least, at the end of the day,  Marleau is tradeable and he's still productive. Nobody's taking Zaitsev's cap hit and those dollars, and he's under contract until the Sun runs out of hydrogen and expands into a red giant.

I don't really know why we're this worried about his contract, actually.

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20 minutes ago, TuckerIntensity said:

I don't really know why we're this worried about his contract, actually.

I think some people see "2 points" and they automatically conclude a d-man is garbage.  Some rarely consider the fact that sometimes d-men can do something else to contribute.

Like actually playing defence.

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2 hours ago, TuckerIntensity said:

You know what else he has before 20? Two years of NHL experience. But I don't really care either way. We won't really know for a half decade. The convoluted retirement plans that are being tossed around is what needed to be addressed as malarky. 

I don't really know why we're this worried about his contract, actually.

Agreed. 4.5 really isn't a bad amount for Z and will only improve as cap continues to climb

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39 minutes ago, Sypher_04 said:

Regarding Marleau after his bonus, I wonder if we could just agree to terminate his deal like Montreal just did with Plekanec? I've always wondered what specific circumstances make that a legal option within the cap

My initial reaction is that his full hit remains as it’s a 35+ contract.  

Plekanec is listed as on IR according to capfriendly, fwiw.  

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1 hour ago, Sypher_04 said:

Regarding Marleau after his bonus, I wonder if we could just agree to terminate his deal like Montreal just did with Plekanec? I've always wondered what specific circumstances make that a legal option within the cap

I think it’s on one year deals under a certain amount. But I’m almost entirely guessing 

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5 hours ago, Holymakinaw said:

It's not the best contract, for sure.  But Zaitsev has played well this season, and his deal is for 4 more years.  Not exactly the end of the world.

Completely disagree. He looks lost in his own zone a lot, and when he has the puck, sometimes it's like he's squeezing his stick so he's going to snap it in half. I think whatever his problem is, it's between the ears, so hopefully he sorts it out.

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